Interview with Albert (Trev) Trevener ex Vice squad detective sergeant.
Trev is now 82 and has been retired from the force 22 years. Holder of the Queen’s Medal, he has lived in the same house, 22 Eccles Ave Ashfield, all his married life. Methodist and Mason, citizens and colleagues presented him with a grandfather clock on his retirement. Throughout this interview it played variations of the Westminster chimes every 1/4-hour.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines vice as- evil, especially grossly immoral habit, or conduct. Particular form of depravity. Moral perversion. Morally evil. Dissolute. Would you agree with that definition?
Yes.
How did you get into the business?
I got in as a young constable. My job would be to accompany a divisional sergeant and collect evidence on S.P.Betting, sly grog that sort of thing.
S.P. and sly grog?
Vice covered a lot of territory.
Who was the boss of the Vice Squad in 1956?
Ron Walden.
Who was Colin Delaney?
He was Police Commissioner.
From his name I would say he was Catholic.
Catholic, and a Papal Knight.
There were two camps-Catholic and Mason. Was there any animosity?
Two camps yes, but no animosity. Ron Walden was also Catholic. The State Government under Premier Joe Cahill was predominately Catholic.
What was Ron Walden like?
Ron Walden was a good boss. A Rugby Union forward. Represented Australia in boxing. A good fella. A fella you could talk to. Not terribly well experienced as an operative policeman, but a good administrator.
When I applied for a warrant to arrest Goossens for scandalous conduct, the crime of scandalous conduct was a common law misdemeanour and for that you have to have a warrant to arrest unless you have them in custody then you can, but I didn’t have him in custody. Customs did, but not me. I invited Customs in because I had no jurisdiction at the airport. After customs had dealt with him then I took him to C.I.B and questioned him on stuff that I knew.
You had a problem getting an offsider to accompany you. No one wanted to know.
I tried to get police from the Vice squad to accompany me because I had a heavy matter at Mascot airport involving a Knight of the Realm. When I mentioned a Knight of the Realm, whether that had any effect on my fellow officers I don’t know. But all of a sudden they had matters of court or come up with some reason that they couldn’t be at Mascot airport tomorrow, the next morning, to find this fellow-the Knight of the Realm.
So I went back to Balmain, where I was stationed, and saw the divisional sergeant, Milton Small, and told him the problem.
He said,"Alright. Who would you like to come with you?
I said," Jim Kilpatrick, if he’s available".
He said,"Well he’s on the night shift but don’t worry about that. If he’s prepared to go with you I’ll replace him".
So I saw Jim; told him exactly as I told the others- a Knight of the Realm.
"Don’t worry", he said,"I’ll be in that".
Now, Nat Craig, Customs. What did you say to him?
Well I rang Nat and told him I’d something on at the airport and the subject had prohibited imports... and I’d like somebody from customs to be there.
And he said, "I’ll get someone to come out."
I said,"No, Nat.I want you there. Because I’ll need a decision made on the spot. Not someone who has to ring you to find out what to do".
"Oh," he says.
"I don’t want an underling," I says,"Who doesn’t know what to do. I want the boss. It’s a Knight of the Realm".
After a while, he said,"I’ll be there".
What was the weather like that morning?
Aw it’d been raining heavily, but it had eased off just before his plane landed.
When he came off the plane he was wearing a velour hat at a rakish angle, his coat draped over his shoulders and carrying the briefcase. I was standing just beside the gangway and as he walked past he said "Good morning". I said "Good morning," back and followed him into reception keeping my eye on the briefcase. As soon as we were in I nodded to Jimmy Kirkpatrick and he gave the nod for an announcement to be made over the Tannoy. "Would Sir Eugene Goossens please go to the doctor’s office?"
HEADLINES ETC’

I typed out his statement, and being a smart arse I made all sorts of errors-spelling errors on every third or fourth line and, when I’d finished, got him to correct it.
Did you do this deliberately?
Yes.
Why?
So he couldn’t say he hadn’t read it.
Good one.
I’d been a detective for many years.
Now I submitted the statement in a file through Ron Walden to the Commissioner to go to the Attorney General asking for approval for a warrant... I’m still waiting for the Attorney General to tell me you can’t have one.
Now somebody from the Parliament I knew quite well, and I knew a few of them. He said,"Gee that’s some ripper photos of Eugene Goossens you got."
I said "How’n the hell did you know?"
"He said,"Aw I saw them in Parliament.
Who was this?
Aw I don’t remember now.
It wasn’t Eddie Ward?
Ah no Eddie Ward had no time for coppers. In fact he’d no time for law and order.
So anyway I was summoned with Ron Waldren to the Attorney General’s office. We were waiting in the anteroom, waiting about an hour and Ron Waldren was spitting chips. And he’s saying, not sotto voco (sic), but very loud about being kept there. And after a while Delaney storms along the corridor and I thought ‘ello, ‘ello, ‘ello.
As Cops do.
As Cops do. Any road he was in there about quarter an hour and he came out with a look of thunder on his face. He walked past the anteroom, stopped, came back, looked in and beckoned me. So I followed him out to the footpath and he says "Sergeant, you’ve been dudded. You’ve done a fantastic job and I want to congratulate you on a job well done, but you’re not getting a warrant. So you can just get back to your station.
And no explanation as to why?
No. I can only think it was Goossens being a Papal Knight.
Goossens a papal Knight? I didn’t know he was a Papal Knight.
Yeah, he was a Papal Knight.
I knew he was Catholic, but I didn’t think he was a Papal Knight.
Well he may not have been a Papal Knight, but he was Catholic.Delaney was a Papal Knight, but. Anyway that was Colin Delaney, and he shook my hand and congratulated me on a job well done. And I’m still waiting officially... for when you submit a file in the police department, and I assume it is still the same, you get an answer back on paper. I’m eighty-two now, still waiting.
Anything unofficial?
Only what Delaney told me.
How did this whole thing start? How did he first come to your attention, Sir Eugene?
There was two fellows, members of the coven, they were in there one day and they found down the back of a sofa-there were only a sofa and a coupla chairs in the whole room-found some negatives and they took them and hawked them around the various newspapers. And the Sun, I think it was, developed them, but they were too hot, so they rang Ron Waldren, and Waldren sent me down. So I got the photos, and they were indeed hot.
When I started on the case I was told to mind my back, which I did. The first thing was to make copies of my file and evidence. I put the original in the hubcap of the spare wheel in the boot, a copy under a pile of rubbish in the garage, and another in my locker at work. I took a copy to Ron Waldren for a warrant who recommended a warrant should be issued. It was forwarded to Col Delaney, who directed a warrant be issued and forwarded it to the Government; only to be told no warrant would be issued.
Who in Government would it have been forwarded to?
Minister of Justice.
Who was that?
Don’t remember, but he was catholic. You must remember the big players in government those days was catholic. And the Premier, Joe Cahill, was catholic, and Eugene was catholic and a mate of Joe’s. It was them that got the Opera House going.
I say unreservedly it was a conspiracy to deny me a warrant. However a few years later there was some talk that they were gonna invite Goossens back to the opening of the Opera House. I was hoping that they would. Because I wouldn’t need a warrant then.
You wouldn’t?
Nah.
How?
I paid five pounds to get a photograph of him committing buggery...
On a man or a woman?
On Norton. And he didn’t come back. But I didn’t need a warrant if he had’ve.
Why?
Well on the first occasion a warrant was necessary because it was a common law misdemeanour and there’s no power of arrest under a common law misdemeanour without a warrant-unless you have him in custody. And the second matter it is an offence under the Crimes Act and under the Crimes Act a warrant is not required.
There was a suggestion made in Truth around the middle of March 1957 that the coven had members in high places -even in the government.
I don’t know about that. All I can say is that when I was denied a warrant for Goossens, Greenlees and Norton, I discontinued my inquiries. I thought what’s good enough for the goose....
Bit of a pun there...
Yeah?
Good enough for the Goosens...?
Aw, yeah... Good.
You were involved in a previous case with Norton and Greenlees while Sir Eugene was abroad. Would you tell me about that?
They were charged with making an indecent publication, and Roie was charged with buggery. They were found not guilty and when I spoke with the jurors afterwards-you’re not supposed to, but I did-they said we found it hard to believe that a man would commit buggery with a woman.
Indeed?
Yeah... Aw well... Shortly afterwards I got a transfer from the Vice Squad.
Were you glad to get out?
Oh yeah.
Why?
Aw it was a sordid sort of thing and there was danger there all the time.
Like what?
Well, like one of the prostitutes, working the Cross, she was a very attractive girl about nineteen, and she wanted me to be her bludger, look after her, and any time I wanted a winkie she would be there for me and pay me half of what she took.
Good offer.
Very good, and frightened the life outa me. But once you do that with them you’re theirs for the rest of your life. So I said thanks very much but no thank you. I know some detectives who have fallen for the three-card trick, but not this one. I had a wife and three kids, and a house, a name that was highly respected. I could have been bought, but you’re thinking along the lines of about ten million. So what If I got landed? I could pack up and go to any part of the world and spend the money.